Взято с форджа,может,кто не видел:
Another BT player raising his complaints....
Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.

Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.

If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.

Back to the Q&A:

Q: Ironclads the same?
A: Ironclads are the same.

Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.

Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
A: Speeders are 1-3

Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.

Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.

Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.

Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.

Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5

Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
A: No, I think that's more wish listing.

Q: Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.

Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
A: No.

Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.

Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
A: 18 points

Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.

Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
A: Just LRC.

Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.

Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
A: Same as before

Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.

Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
A: They dropped 25 points.
 
Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
A: Yes it give one member BS5

Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.

Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.

Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
A: Grav have concussive.

Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.

Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
A: All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.

Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
A: No, basic Chaplain for all.

Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.

Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
A: 165 points. Down 65 points.

Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.

Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.

Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
A: 24" rapid fire.

Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in Codex:DA, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
A: Yes

Да, согласен. В таком варианте это становится мастхев и как основа армии и как союзники. Только я бы накидывал 4++, рерол и фнп. Шансы вполне есть. И тогда мы боимся только блины с 10-той силой и то не сильно.

Не совсем. Грав-пушки по слухам игнорят ковер. Боинг Тау , рипов и любую элиту/монстру это карает безбожно

DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

Пофачили.

а у обычного лр и было 10 не?

Большая компиляция слухов по новому кодексу Space Marines с B&C:

WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:
There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)

NEW WEAPONS:
Grav weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Grav weapons wound the target based on their Armor Save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is Immobilized and loses a Hull Point.

RANGES & RATE OF FIRE:
- Grav-Pistol - Range 12"
- Grav-Rifle - 18" salvo 2/3
- Grav-Cannon - 24" salvo 3/5

Grav-Pistols and Grav-Rifles are available to all units that haves access to Pistol upgrades and Special Weapons, respectively.
Grav-Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) - S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane

WEAPONS CHANGES:
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - is now 24" Rapid-Fire

CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS:
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:
Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault - The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).

MARNEUS AUGUSTUS CALGAR:
Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.

VARRO TIGURIUS:
Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.

ORTAN CASSIUS:
5 points more expensive.

CATO SICARIUS:
15 points cheaper.

TORIAS TELION:
Telion has the same points cost.
​Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.

ANTARO CHRONUS:
Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.

SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:
Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons. (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook) get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.

VULKAN HE'STAN:
Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.

RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:
They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.

KAYVAAN SHRIKE:
Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.

WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.

KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.

IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:
Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with Bolters (It works on every Bolter on page 56 of the Rulebook.).
Devastators and Centurions have the Tank Hunters USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.

DARNATH LYSANDER:
Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.

PEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.

IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:
All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah

BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:
"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" - Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.
The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).

HELBRECHT:
Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.

GRIMAULDUS:
Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the It will not Die USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3

THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).

HQ UNITS:
CHAPTER MASTER:
Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.

CAPTAIN:
Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.

CHAPLAIN:
There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.

LIBRARIAN:
They use the Psychic Powers out of the Rulebook.

MASTER OF THE FORGE:
Now has the It Will Not Die USR.

HONOR GUARD:
10 points cheaper per Marine. Now 25 points.

COMMAND SQUADS:
Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor

ELITES UNITS:
STERNGUARD VETERANS:
3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Grav weapons.

TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:
Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.

TECHMARINES:
No news to report.

ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.

TROOPS UNITS:
TACTICAL SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Grav-Rifle as a Special Weapon option.

SCOUT SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.

FAST ATTACK UNITS:
VANGUARD VETERANS:
Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.

BIKE SQUADS:
4 points cheaper per Marine.

ATTACK BIKES:
Possibly 4 points cheaper.

SCOUT BIKES:
No news to report.

HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:

DEVASTATOR SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine.
Flakk Missiles can be bought for +10pts.

DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -

Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each

Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters

Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-Cannon and Grav-Amp

Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.

Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear

THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:
Unchanged in rules and points cost.

VEHICLES:
RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:
No news to report.

DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.

STORMRAVEN:
Same point cost.

STORMTALON:
No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:
No news to report.

LAND SPEEDER STORM:
The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.

PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:
Cheaper.

VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:
No news to report.

WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:
20 points cheaper.
Now 65 points.

STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Does NOT have Interceptor.

HUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Does NOT have Interceptor.

LAND RAIDER:
Passenger Capacity - 10

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:
Passenger Capacity - 12

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
​Passenger Capacity - 16

Мне кажется, что тактическая часть от ультры может сделать обычные тактички вполне играбельными. Хотя те же драконы радостно облизываются на такие лакомые кусочки. Девастатор центурионы в целом интересны, но борьба за хеви слот скорее всего будет жутчайшая. Правда еще вопрос - куда поставят пво машинки, но, скорее всего в тот же хеви сапорт. Ну и дроп теперь только 8-рок с бивнями, что не даст использовать комбат сквады. Хотя 8 штернов с лисом все еще смотрятся не плохо на первый ход в деплое, особенно поддержанные парой тактичек с реролом хитов. Ну а вангарды так и остались бесполезными. Выпадать перед врагом и потом терпеть его стрельбы ...

В целом - осталось дождаться кодекса. И тогда уже можно реально смотреть что и как.

Demiurge реролл болтеров - это бэковое правило, тактички все равно играть не будут. У меня под знаменем болтеры насыпают намного больше выстрелов - и не так это круто.

Центурионы с гравипушками могут быть очень интересны - но нужно узнать цену и все характеристики

Отредактировано Lt.Alex (2013-08-14 12:51:12)

Как ни странно пока интересно, но нужно узнать сколько стоит Грави веапонс для всех остальных.